Opened 13 years ago

Closed 11 years ago

Last modified 11 years ago

#3448 closed defect (wontfix)

"Upcoming Recordings" in MythWeb does not properly display adjusted times for recordings that begin/end early

Reported by: anonymous Owned by: Rob Smith
Priority: minor Milestone: 0.22
Component: mythweb Version: 0.20-fixes
Severity: medium Keywords:
Cc: Ticket locked: no

Description

I have a TV show that I record with "Record at any time on any channel." Due to an incorrect program listing, for a single episode I created an override recording rule listed as airing from 3-4pm with both the starting and ending times set 240 minutes early, so it'll actually record from 11am-12pm.

However, MythWeb's "Upcoming Recordings" page displays the episode with neither the proper adjusted times (it still shows the default times) nor the proper recording order (it's still sandwiched between two other programs set to record at 3pm and 4pm, respectively). Further, the only indication when looking at the detailed information for the override rule in MythWeb that the recording will not occur at the default 3pm-4pm times is looking at the "Start Early" and "End Late" fields; otherwise, the rule appears set for 3pm-4pm.

Here's how the various lists of forthcoming recordings display the same recording with the adjusted times:

  • Mythfrontend|Upcoming Recordings: Adjusted times, adjusted recording order.
  • Mythfrontend|Upcoming Recordings|options/detail page: Adjusted times, adjusted time amounts.
  • MythWeb|Upcoming Recordings: Original times, original recording order.
  • MythWeb|Upcoming Recordings|rule options/detail page: Original times, adjusted time amounts.
  • MythWeb|Backend Status: Adjusted and original times, adjusted recording order.
  • mythbackend --printsched: Adjusted times, adjusted recording order.

Strangely enough, the place in either Mythfrontend or MythWeb with the most useful information (both adjusted and original times and the correct recording order) is "Backend Status."

Change History (13)

comment:1 in reply to:  description Changed 13 years ago by ylee@…

Darn Trac system again dropped my email address after previewing message.

comment:2 Changed 12 years ago by Nick Morrott <knowledgejunkie@…>

Yeechang,

Use trac's Preferences->General to have it save your name/email address. Choose Save Settings as soon as you have entered them as trac will likely forget them if you choose another Preferences tab before saving.

comment:3 Changed 12 years ago by Rob Smith

Owner: changed from xris to Rob Smith
Status: newassigned

comment:4 Changed 12 years ago by Rob Smith

Milestone: unknown0.22

comment:5 Changed 11 years ago by Rob Smith

Resolution: wontfix
Status: acceptedclosed

This isn't going to be changed.

Upcoming recordings is showing the programs that will record. You still have the program defined as 3-4pm, and that's what it was showing, if you needed to move the recording to the 11-12 one, you should have selected that one to record rather then change the start/end time so radically, as it still was 'recording' the 3-4 one.

Think of upcoming recordings as a list of programs and not the schedules, and then it does make sense.

So yeah, I'm not going to make the change.

comment:6 in reply to:  5 Changed 11 years ago by Nick Morrott <knowledgejunkie (at) gmail (dot) com>

Replying to kormoc:

This isn't going to be changed.

Upcoming recordings is showing the programs that will record. You still have the program defined as 3-4pm, and that's what it was showing, if you needed to move the recording to the 11-12 one, you should have selected that one to record rather then change the start/end time so radically, as it still was 'recording' the 3-4 one.

Think of upcoming recordings as a list of programs and not the schedules, and then it does make sense.

Playing Devil's Advocate here: Surely MythWeb should be in agreement with mythfrontend (or vice versa)? If you have 2 (or more) MythTV programs (mythfrontend and MythWeb), and both have a page/interface called "Upcoming Recordings", surely the user (at least myself) would expect to see the same content - they're interfaces to the same data after all.

I'm all for consistency in this regard.

comment:7 Changed 11 years ago by Rob Smith

I understand the concern, but I'm sure we'd get more bugs if we had a list like

  • 10am to 11 am - Show X - Airtime 10 Am, 1 hour
  • 11 am to Noon - Show Z - Airtime 3 Pm, 1 hour
  • Noon to 1 pm - Show Y - Airtime Noon, 1 hour

That makes no sense to me at all.

Does it to you?

comment:8 in reply to:  7 Changed 11 years ago by Nick Morrott <knowledgejunkie (at) gmail (dot) com>

Replying to kormoc:

I understand the concern, but I'm sure we'd get more bugs if we had a list like

  • 10am to 11 am - Show X - Airtime 10 Am, 1 hour
  • 11 am to Noon - Show Z - Airtime 3 Pm, 1 hour
  • Noon to 1 pm - Show Y - Airtime Noon, 1 hour

That makes no sense to me at all.

Does it to you?

Looking at the same listing in mythfrontend, there is no specific reference to airtime in the main listing - it lists only the scheduled title, channel, (amended) recording time, and input. Because this data comes out of the scheduler, which will have taken any user-overridden start/stop times into account (the crux of this issue), I still argue that any interface to this data should be consistent in the way it is displayed, for the ultimate benefit of the user.

I haven't seen any tickets reporting confusion with this listing in mythfrontend, perhaps because the only time you'll see 'odd' timings is when the user has /specifically/ overridden the schedule timings with their own hard start/stop early/late, and perhaps because it displays the information that most users would expect? When a user does provide a timing override, the fact the MythWeb listing does not update to reflect equally could generate confusion in MythWeb, and is clearly the basis of this ticket.

I've always understand the 'Upcoming Recordings' page to show /when/ the actual scheduled recordings will be made (per the scheduler), and on what tuner. I can quickly see whether any specific timings have taken effect (as you can in mythfrontend), and can do this via a browser whilst being distant from mythfrontend. It should agree with the output of mythbackend --printsched.

There is also the reported inconsistency in MythWeb itself, between Upcoming Recordings and Backend Status->Schedule, with the latter giving the adjusted start time as mythfrontend's Upcoming Recordings and --printsched do, but the former not. Are these supposed to show the same data (upcoming scheduled recordings) or not?

Getting across any differences between 'Scheduled Recording Time' (when your machine will actually record the programme) and 'Airdate' (when the listings show the programme as being broadcast) to the user, especially in scenarios where there are differences, requires consistency across the MythTV stable.

Content-wise, I don't see any reason why MythWeb's Upcoming Recordings page cannot mirror that of mythfrotend or --printsched, apart from the wording used to describe the programme timings. Perhaps we could use a different CSS class for upcoming recordings which have overridden timings, to make it clearer? Are there any architectural reasons why the same information cannot be shown in MythWeb?

Isaac/other devs/users: do you have view on this? Have I missed the point here?

comment:9 Changed 11 years ago by Rob Smith

<i>I haven't seen any tickets reporting confusion with this listing in mythfrontend</i>

One ticket in 5 years is hardly indicative of one view being better then the other...

<i>Are these supposed to show the same data (upcoming scheduled recordings) or not?</i>

That's the thing, they're showing two different sets of data. One is showing the schedules and one is showing the upcoming programs to be recorded. One is time centric and one is program/title centric.

<i>Are there any architectural reasons why the same information cannot be shown in MythWeb?</i>

Pulling a number out of my buttocks, it's a 12 line patch or so.

It's not about how tough or easy, it's about expectations and I'm on the fence and thus I tend to leave things alone.

If there is a overwhelming response, I could be convinced to change it, but one person noticing after 5 years seems like for the majority of people, it's not an issue.

comment:10 in reply to:  9 ; Changed 11 years ago by ylee@…

Replying to kormoc:

That's the thing, they're showing two different sets of data. One is showing the schedules and one is showing the upcoming programs to be recorded. One is time centric and one is program/title centric.

As the one person who has reported this issue in the past five years, the above sentence compels me to respond.

The relevant portions of mythfrontend and MythWeb are both titled Upcoming Recordings. Each, of course, looks and behaves slightly differently from the other, but only in ways that a Qt graphical application must differ from an Ajax/PHP application. They offer the same information and permit the same actions. In practice, users treat them as exactly synonymous, with no need on their part to ever think of the nonsensical difference between "time centric" and "program/title centric."

I admit that the usage case I raised is unusual, but that rarity is exactly why the inconsistency between the two applications--that otherwise behave, and are used, in exactly the same way--should be eliminated.

As I pointed out in the ticket, Backend Status (of all places) offers a model of offering the most relevant information for the usage case. But if all the data can't be displayed in the two Upcoming Recordings so comprehensively, I do hope that MythWeb will be adjusted to agree with mythfrontend, and not vice versa.

comment:11 in reply to:  10 ; Changed 11 years ago by Rob Smith

Replying to ylee@pobox.com:

They offer the same information and permit the same actions.

That's the thing, they don't.

Mythweb displays the column titled 'Airdate', not recording date/time, not schedule date/time, Airdate. Under this column, we display the airdate. It would actually be a bug if we displayed the record date under a column called airdate.

It's not like mythweb is displaying incorrect data. We're displaying exactly the data we say we're displaying.

In reality, this entire request boils down to "Change upcoming recordings page to display recording date instead of airdate"

As for you believing that the frontend and mythweb were displaying the same data, it's just not true. The frontend is displaying different data, hence my statement that this is a different view.

So in short, I will say again what I said previously.

I will not change the airdate column to display the recording date. The recording date is not the airdate. I will not display incorrect information in the column.

I will add in the ability for users to select the columns they want to see, that way if you want to see the record date rather then the airdate, you can.

I fail to see why you have a problem with this solution or why you keep arguing that they claim to be showing the same data when they are clearly not.

comment:12 in reply to:  11 Changed 11 years ago by Nick Morrott <knowledgejunkie (at) gmail (dot) com>

Replying to kormoc:

Replying to ylee@pobox.com:

They offer the same information and permit the same actions.

That's the thing, they don't.

Mythweb displays the column titled 'Airdate', not recording date/time, not schedule date/time, Airdate. Under this column, we display the airdate. It would actually be a bug if we displayed the record date under a column called airdate.

It's not like mythweb is displaying incorrect data. We're displaying exactly the data we say we're displaying.

One last thing. Can you please confirm what the somewhat-ambiguous 'Length' column should be showing? The length column currently shows the /recording/ duration with any additional user-configured start/stop timings included. With the possibility of the Upcoming Recordings page finally being able to offer the same information as mythfrontend (most welcome, thanks kormoc), should the length column show the programme duration per the schedules when showing airdate, and the recording length when showing recstart information?

comment:13 in reply to:  11 Changed 11 years ago by ylee@…

Replying to kormoc:

I will add in the ability for users to select the columns they want to see, that way if you want to see the record date rather then the airdate, you can.

I fail to see why you have a problem with this solution or why you keep arguing that they claim to be showing the same data when they are clearly not.

Other than quibbling regarding whether one reply to my original ticket (two, counting this one) is me "keep arguing," I thank you for the new functionality and absolutely do not have a problem with the solution. I do suggest that the recording-date column be made default over airdate for consistency's sake with mythfrontend.

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